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[plan b choca]Place North West | Deansgate overhaul top of MCC’s transport hit list

Tag:   2021-08-12 04:55:15

  Much of this looks great, and good to see obvious candidates finally getting the attention they’ve needed.

  I’d really like to see what ‘Plan B’ is for Piccadilly if – or, in IMHO, when – HS2 is cancelled, either beyond Birmingham or in full. The area has great placemaking potential, but could so easily end up a dog’s dinner with so many landowners & interests, and my experience of Network Rail is they need cajoling & pushing out of the ‘lowest-common-denominator’ option.

  September 24, 2020 at 12:12 pm

  By MancLad

  Excellent idea that will make a more pleasant environment for shoppers and diners.

  Deansgate shouldn’t be handling large volumes of through traffic, which should be using the Ring Road (i.e. Trinity Way) instead.

  September 24, 2020 at 12:40 pm

  By Anonymous

  These schemes should be for pedestrians, not cyclists.

  September 24, 2020 at 12:48 pm

  By Dan

  A brilliant sounding set of schemes here which will create an excellent environment for pedestrians, which is sadly lacking here in Liverpool in my experience

  September 24, 2020 at 12:52 pm

  By Liverpool Romances

  This will kill off Manchester, what a absolutely ridicules idea, where do these people come from who come up with them. 1st off it rains ALOT so those pretty pictures will look just like the street behind the great northern, you know boarded up shops and not a soul around. 2nd how many restaurants can you have on a closed deansgate. What other shops would be along there? Can’t have shops that sell anything that needs taking home of the back of your bike or on the delayed/cancelled train or broken down tram due to a twig on the line. 3rd Deliveries to the shops pubs bars and restaurants? 4th and probably the biggest one of all, Traffic, where will it go on to roads that already can’t cope? Chapel street is chaos already, made even worse now because of a huge pointless cycle lane down both sides reducing it to 1 lane from 2. Traffic now backs up to the cresent. If for one minute anyone thinks that this will get people out of cars and on to bikes or public transport your in la la land and emissions from sitting traffic will make for more pollution. If it get to the point where you can no longer drive into Manchester people like myself will take their business’s out of the city centre… wake up and smell the coffee people will always chose the car. I can not believe this has the potential to happen…

  September 24, 2020 at 1:18 pm

  By anon

  This is my favourite article on here for a long time. Very exciting stuff we can look forward to, particularly for the areas of the city which need attention.

  The pedestrianisation of Deansgate will be transformational for the city centre. Even the temporary set up with the trees is great and the long stretch up to the Deansgate South towers looks class on a sunny day.

  The recent addition of the outdoor seating in NQ has created a well needed atmosphere (reminds me of urban festivals) in the area and should become a permanent fixture.

  The potential for operational tunnels under Manchester could be a massive game changer if they really went for it. @MCC @TfGM Please get the majority of public transport underground and let us walk/cycle on the existing tram routes!

  Thanks PNW.

  September 24, 2020 at 1:23 pm

  By Anonymous

  great – crack on!

  September 24, 2020 at 1:23 pm

  By Anonymous

  I’ll be honest, I’m dead against it. People forget that traders need access to Dixons

  September 24, 2020 at 1:41 pm

  By in b4 anyone else

  I also think these are generally good ideas. We need to get more cars off the roads and focus on people instead. @MancLad, if HS2 is indeed cancelled, this would cause huge issues around GM as we are relying on HS2 (and NPR) to free up the capacity on existing rail lines by moving the express trains off them – this is about our only chance to have a proper, high frequency, reliable heavy rail suburban network in GM. As hinted above, to achieve this, we need not only HS2 but also Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPH, e.g. LVP MCR Leeds) completed as well and so I hope the plans for Piccadilly include that also

  September 24, 2020 at 1:47 pm

  By EOD

  Deansgate lends itself to being pedestrianised so this aspect could certainly work. The less traffic in the town centre the better, I never really understood why people want to drive through the centre of Manchester anyway its stressful. I think York is also planning something similar.

  September 24, 2020 at 3:19 pm

  By Jon P

  Great! The beautification of Manchester continues apace! Schemes like this, combined with the huge jobs market will make the city one of the very best places to live in the UK.

  September 24, 2020 at 3:38 pm

  By Manchester Romance

  Plans for Deasngate look great it’s a shame the city council will be incapable of keeping it clean and maintained.

  September 24, 2020 at 8:54 pm

  By Anonymous

  They seem to forget the weather here is grey, dull and miserable 80% of the year. Its already a terrible experience trying to get around, can’t see everyone popping on bikes or walking about on a late January evening in the driving rain.

  September 24, 2020 at 10:00 pm

  By FoggyLog

  This is absolutely fantastic…get it done, its schemes like this which will being turning Manchester from (in places) somewhat drab to something more special. For the ones saying it rains all the time, pedestrianisation isn’t just about open air dinning, its about creating an environment that is more pleasant and welcoming to people.

  Every indication of when schemes like this are introduced is that footfall increases not falls….I’m old enough to remember the uproar when the proposal to pedestrianize market street was proposed….some people always resist change.

  September 24, 2020 at 11:22 pm

  By Manc Man

  Excellent idea!

  You don’t need to drive on Deansgate. You do need a more landscaped and pedestrian friendly city centre.

  September 25, 2020 at 9:16 am

  By Anonymous

  Anon @ totally agree with you 100%. traffic is nearly back to normal. Chapel Street is choca and down to one lane because of a STUPID cycle lane that a cyclist uses once every 5 minute. About 3months ago Salford council blocked off Blackfriars road (town side) and this is causing problems. Also you got deansgate at Blackfriars road side already blocked off and parts of the northern quarter are blocked off and ancoats street takes about 15 minutes to get through at the moment with the roadworks around there. It’s madness and crazy. I’m off to get a chill pill

  September 25, 2020 at 9:43 am

  By Darren born bred Salford

  @anon, lets have a look at some of your questions:

  (1) “where do these people come from who come up with them”: The good thing about town planning is that we have a lot of real world examples. Looking across Europe, we can see an almost endless number of successful pedestrian streets. There are far more examples of successful inner-city pedestrian zones than unsuccessful. That’s one place they get their ideas from

  (2) “1st off it rains ALOT so those pretty pictures will look just like the street behind the great northern, you know boarded up shops and not a soul around. : There is a huge difference between an alley behind a building that isn’t on street level and poor connections to the urbanity around it and a major street with direct access to the city from all angles. Rain is a problem, but a thing called umbrellas or canopies were invented a while ago. They work in other wet Europen cities.

  (3) “2nd how many restaurants can you have on a closed deansgate?” As many as economically viable. Again, look at other cities across Europe and their pedestrian streets, whether Frankfurt, Ghent, or the amazing Utrecht – any number of cities and you will find that not only do restaurants work on pedestrian streets, they flourish more than on traffic-focused streets.

  (4) “Can’t have shops that sell anything that needs taking home of the back of your bike or on the delayed/cancelled train or broken down tram due to a twig on the line”: This makes zero sense. Again, experience in other European cities where the main retail street is pedestrian, shows that its works. Hell, you don’t even have to go abroad. Look at Leeds, Liverpool, Glasgow etc.

  (5) “Traffic, where will it go on to roads that already can’t cope?” This is probably the most logical question you ask. Traffic changes can be a problem. But every city that has pedestrian streets had to ask this and in every city they hard hardened car drivers that said the world would end if the street were pedestrianised. The fact is, is that examples show that there are solutions. Traffic isn’t the be all and end all in city centres. In fact, some studies have shown that when traffic becomes harder in city centres, it helps spur growth in public transport.

  (6) “Deliveries to the shops pubs bars and restaurants?”: Easily solved. Just follow the solutions on EVERY OTHER pedestrian street on the planet. It’s not like we are inventing the wheel here

  (7) If people like you leave the city centre as you threaten, perhaps that’s not really a problem. There are huge numbers of people moving to the city centre, we are expecting up to 100,000 in a few years to be living there and that could grow. They will be people WHO DON’T WANT traffic, they will walk, so if fewer car drivers come in, it will be better. We also need to improve public transport and bike lanes, so instead of moaning about not being able to drive, push for increased rail and cycle access. To be honest, the more car drivers that leave for the suburbs, the nicer the city centre will become and then attract more people to either live there or take public transport, cycle or walk in. So yeah… not that I want you to go, but… see you later…

  September 25, 2020 at 10:03 am

  By EOD

  Where are all the cars going to go when half of Manchester city centre is eventually a pedestrians zone.

  September 25, 2020 at 11:01 am

  By born bred Darren

  This summer has shown us that Manchester City Centre doesn’t need cars to thrive. For decades cars and their associated infrastructure have massively detracted from the experience of the city centre and we’re finally starting to reverse that. Just think: a city centre without cluttered signposts, traffic lights, crash barriers and boy racers. Bring it on!

  September 25, 2020 at 11:57 am

  By Anonymous

  Is the Deansgate paving affordable?

  September 25, 2020 at 12:02 pm

  By Darren eats bread Salford

  I like what’s here but no more after this. It’s a functioning city centre, not a park.

  September 25, 2020 at 12:15 pm

  By Anti- anti car nazis

  The anti-anti car nazis will be frothing at the mouth over this

  September 25, 2020 at 12:52 pm

  By Anonymous

  Yes, yes and more yes.

  September 25, 2020 at 3:30 pm

  By Matt Pickering

  Traffic will get worse, great news for the Trafford Centre.

  September 25, 2020 at 3:39 pm

  By Floyd

  My favourite comment on here is Darren’s bewildered “but where are all the cars going to go?”

  They’re not needed mate. Less space for cars in a city centre isn’t an unhappy side effect, it’s a desired outcome.

  September 25, 2020 at 3:44 pm

  By W

  A good thing overall if implemented properly I Agree with anonymous though, the place always look like it needs a good scrub. Don’t know why cleaning, litter enforcement and emptying bins should be so problematic.

  September 25, 2020 at 3:45 pm

  By Wiganwarrior

  And where are all the new metro lines criss-crossing the inner area of Manchester and running through the old centre? The Quays are much better served. When it is cold and raining or when you want to get somewhere, with few roads open you are left stuffed. Like Khan in London, closes bridges and London has miles of traffic jams and no new metro lines to replace lost roads. Bikes are a joke – dirty way to travel to work. Walking – too slow. Manchester has the wrong rail policy altogether – in fact, they don’t have one! All Manchester’s transport policy amounts to is replacing higher capacity and faster trains with trams and causing people pain as they did with other lines, especially to Bury and Altrincham. No new lines planned, nothing. Global cities have many more lines than Manchester to get people around all corners. Quays to Eastlands, Salford Crescent to the south of Oxford Road – so much more capacity is required. Then there’s the wider metropolitan area from Lancaster to Stoke, Chester and Nantwich to the central area – people have to get off and then walk for ages as connections and options are poor or non-existent. The utter genius that closed Altrincham to the central area for a tram, sending trains via Stockport and into Piccadilly taking vastly more time and ruining direct Quays stops opportunities wants shooting. Manchester does not even have a reliable turn up and go heavy rail service. It needs vast investment but they don’t even have a plan now. All the high-rises to come and then what? Manchester was led well for years, but now they have run out of the necessary big ideas. Ardwick reopening and central area expansion opportunity is huge too – but nothing. It is mightily depressing for a city that claims such ambition.

  September 26, 2020 at 11:34 pm

  By Richard